Today I was one of the participants in another Gymchat – this time talking about recovery foods. Some interesting topics and opinions were discussed, and, as always, nutrition is a fun topic!
Gymchat 169 – Recovery Foods
When you’ve pushed your body to the limit, how do you recover?
This week we’re taking a look at another piece of the recovery puzzle, food. The things that cause the varying levels of soreness following your workouts/competitions/races, and how to minimise their effects through targeted nutrition. What to consume, when and in which forms.
Helping us explore this fascinating topic is none other than ultrarunner, airline captain and insanely competitive triathlete, +Chas Melichar. Fantastic.
Quick note before we start : I’ve got a few questions myself, but I’m also keen to hear from everyone else here. If you’ve got any diet-related questions for +Chas Melichar, just jump right in. We’ll get through as many as we can.
Hello everyone! I’m by no means an expert, so I’ll be interested to hear what other have to say, too, while I drink my chocolate milk after my run! 
Hey +Chas Melichar, welcome. All well there?
+Scott Bird Hopefully the internet holds up … Been flaky today but seems to be holding for now. I have a backup if I need it.
… Been flaky today but seems to be holding for now. I have a backup if I need it.
Good stuff. Let’s roll.+Chas Melichar, thanks for joining us today. Should be a great discussion on Recovery Foods .
Before we get started, for those who don’t know you, a little detail. What sort of training do you enjoy, and what’s your background?
Hi +Chas Melichar +Scott Bird
Basically, I’m an ultrarunner and triathlete in the longer distances. Currently, I’m tapering for the Comrades Marathon, which is the world’s largest marathon held in South Africa I’m one of 159 Americans that will be running the race. Needless to say, when training for Iron-length (2.4 mile swim/ 112 Mile Bike / 26.2 mile run) triathlons and 56+ mile runs, I spend a lot of time with recovery. And, I like to eat.
Hey +Amit Sinha, +Kirk Fontaine, +Andrew Nalepa - welcome. Keen to hear what everyone eats, why and when.
I’m also not the youngest or the fastest, which means I spend a lot of time out on the courses. My longest 50k (31.2mile) trail ultra took me 8 hours and 40 minutes to finish (with over 9,000′ elevation change). Being able to recover quickly is key when you’re doing 2 1/2 Ironmans, 4 ultras, and an Ironman in one year.
The Comrades looks insane
But it’s an amazing experience – closest I’ll ever get to feeling like an Olympian.
Good stuff +Chas Melichar.Lets begin with a definition – what do we mean by ‘Recovery Foods’? What sorts of things are you looking to minimise, and to restore?
Recovery foods for me include protein shake w milk right after, water w bcaa’s, & a carb loaded meal within an hr!
For me, many studies have shown that calories ingested within (and I’ve heard 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour… etc) a certain time after a workout in a ratio of 4carbs to 1 protein seems to be relatively effective for helping muscle recover from exertion. The current “fad” seems to be lowfat organic chocolate milk … That, and foods high in anti-inflammatory properties (ie, anything “berry”) seem to help.
For those building muscle, I’ve heard yay/nay on creatine. What is everyone’s opinion on that?
IMHO, though, recovery foods continue to the end of the day, including taking a slow-digesting protein (casein) before bed. Recovery, in my opinion, is much more than just what happens immediately after the workout. Recovery also happens when you sleep, so you need to make sure you sleep with the right recovery nutrients (which isn’t to say you should eat immediately before bed a bunch of cheetos).
+Chas Melichar I noticed no effect w creatine when I used it in the past but maybe shud give it a shot now as a bit older
+Amit Sinha : sounds good. Does that combination work well? Anything you’d change?+Chas Melichar : is that for endurance athletes, or does it apply to anyone who does a little physical training?
I take a casein shake before bed, always feel full but not stuffed!
No, that combo keeps me satiated so at most I’d probably add more carbs as lately I’m hitting the amounts of protein & fats I need but falling short on carbs.
Interesting +Chas Melichar. What sort of nutrients can aid sleep, and what sorts of foods do you typically consume for these?
I do think that after a tough workout – whether strength training or endurance training – ingesting calories in the proper forms is important. If you’re building mass, then more protein seems like it would be more appropriate, whereas if you’re doing hard endurance, something more of the 4:1 ratio might be better. What I can say is that during a recent charter flight of a professional football team, there was a LOT of chocolate milk being drank, and those guys range from big and muscle to lean and fast.
I’m loving my caseine shake before bed. It’s hard to mix, but it’s a slow-digesting protein that the body can use overnight. Despite being an endurance athlete, I learned that trick from a strength-building website. Ihate going to bed hungry. But I’ve noticed that since I started doing that, my fat mass has decreased, my weight stayed about the same, and My Sweetheart has started more and more comments about how sexy-muscle my back looks. Win-win.
That makes sense +Amit Sinha. Give it another run to see what sort of impact it has on your current performance.
Cool. +Chas Melichar, are shakes your ideal pre-bedtime meal; or are solid foods also on the menu?
+1
+Scott Bird I’ve become a creature of habit, actually, and usually have just the caseine shake. In the morning, I have a whey-protein shake mixed with banana, greek yogurt, raw egg, cottage cheese, and almond milk. Studies say that whey when mixed with other forms of protein will slow digestion. Plus that tends to the 40/30/30 ratio of carbs/fat/protein that I try to balance (not always successfully).
+2
+Scott Bird I know a lot of diet advice says to not eat right before bed, or 2 hours before bed. If you’re exercising, I think that’s poor advice. If you’re JUST dieting (always a bad idea IMHO) then maybe that will help. But it’s always what you eat before bed (don’t eat a bunch of energy carbs!) that matter, too.
Cool.+Chas Melichar , let’s take a look at the overall soreness that most people are aware of, DOMS. What exactly is it, and can it be minimised through the things you eat?
+2
I feel that anything with anti-inflammatory properties will help in that area. To avoid DOMS that’s where the post-workout meal comes in, plus overall nutrition. But foods high in anti-oxidents (yes, dark chocolate for example), tea, blueberries, even quercetin can help immensely. You find high amounts of quercitin mostly in FRS products, but also in other supplements.
+Chas Melichar, I agree entirely that it’s down to what you eat before bedtime. If you eat something and it keeps you awake, try not to have it again right before you hit the sheets.
+1
Additionally, the avocado – although high in calories, so be careful – is pretty handy thinkg to eat overall.
Cool. +Chas Melichar, do those high antioxidant foods help reduce the severity of your soreness, or the duration of your recovery? Or both?
+Scott Bird Caffeine effects people different, also, before bedtime, but although it’s an “obvious” thing to avoid, you’d be surprised… sometimes it’s in foods you wouldn’t expect. So, before bed, keep away from fruits, or items with sugar, or heavy foods – but you have to figure out what works for you by experimenting and reading things like Gymchat to get ideas!
+1
Agreed – big fan of avocados myself. Love ‘em.
Yep, it’s definitely an area where a bit of self-experimentation can make a huge difference.
+2
+Scott Bird After stressing the body, you’re going to crave things to help replace those nutrients you’ve used. You need to provide the body those things it needs the most – after a strong strength workout, you need protein – but lean protein (fish, which also contains Omega-3′s). You need to feed that hunger in a healthy way! Don’t forget your fats – any diet or recovery that avoids carbs, fats, or lean proteins is a bad idea, really. Finally, when you start eating healthier, you’ll start feeling better, and as most of us will admit – 90% of any workout is mental – both “talking” (making your muscles work) and “listening” (not pushing them to injury).
+Chas Melichar, in terms of the post-workout needs, what are the differences between endurance events and heavy strength training? Do the same types of foods help both groups in the same ways?
My favorite post workout is lowfat chocolate milk – what does everyone else use?
+1
I really like ’90% of any workout is mental – both “talking” (making your muscles work) and “listening” (not pushing them to injury)’.Post workout foods : I tend to eat whatever’s available, and easy to prepare. I love cooking, but not straight after a workout
+1
+Scott Bird Ultimately I think yes because to be a good endurance athlete, you need good core strength. Also, I’ve noticed elite endurance athletes are adding more strength training to their regimens to help offset muscle loss during endurance. Also, keeping a good nutrition helps keep loss from occurring at any time. I’m not sure that all endurance athletes would agree with that, but it definitely makes you look better .
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+2
I also think that if you’re craving something in particular – once you break your addiction to sugar most American’s have – it’s your body telling you that it needs something. If you’re craving, for example, a steak – big, juicy steak – you might be needing more iron. Think about the whyyou’re hungry for something, and choice wisely, but listen to what you’re really hungry for – before bed, or during the day. The key is to break that sugar addiction first. Or have a 85% cacao dark chocolate piece .
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Interesting. +Chas Melichar, what sort of strength work do you do for your own types of races? How has that changed over the years?
+1
Sound advice. Breaking the sugar addiction is a great first step for many, many people.
+Scott Bird That’s the great thing about the fitness world – they are continuingly inventing new ways of exercise. I think a smart idea is to change things up – keep the body confused – crossfit, balance ball, deadweights, etc… But then again I get bored easily. Lately I’ve wanted to try some of the TRX stuff – because I haven’t before, it looks like not only great strength training, but great core work. So I keep my eyes out for new stuff all the time. For a staple, though, the classic p90x can’t be beat . For us endurance types, core focus is key I feel.
. For us endurance types, core focus is key I feel.
Cool. I’m with you on the constant change thing, at least for the periphery of the workouts. The core is always the same.
+1
+Chas Melichar, I believe there are a few Paleo and Primal fans here. How does recovery nutrition change for those on a low-carb diet?
I guess I feel the key to getting past an injury with nutrition includes RICE – Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation – and eating the right foods. A search on the internet can give you some great natural remedies which doesn’t make the pharmaceuticals happy or they say they dont work – but one thing is for sure – eating healthier doesn’t HURT.
+Amit Sinha, I’m also keen to hear your thoughts on the low-carb thing. I suspect that a lot of people you train with are also on similar diets : do they all have pretty much the same post-workout routines?
+1
For those Paleo and Primal fans you’ll have to find your protein in the legumes world – or other vegetable proteins. Just don’t ignore the protein, no matter the source, since life is balance (again, in my opinion) and keeping a balanced diet is important. Too much of any one thing (even veggies) isn’t ultimately good. The problem with vegetable protein is it is incomplete when compared to protein from meat. This is due to meat protein containing all nine of the essential amino acids. In contrast, vegetables do not contain the full number. So a greater variety of veggies are necessary ( but they are nutrient dense).
Good stuff. Completely agree that the key aspect is balance.
+1
As an endurance athlete I’m definitely not wise with the low-carb thing .
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+1
How about those you train with +Chas Melichar? Are most of them on similar diets?I suspect that once someone discovers that something helps, it catches on pretty quickly.
+1
That’s how the chocolate milk thing got started. Oddly, most folks seem to operate on a balanced diet of what I call “rainbow” foods – they eat foods with lots of different colors.
+Scott Bird most crossfiters I know do paleo or zone while others swear by IFing…I’m doing just paleo right now but zoned for a long time & do IF once in awhile.
Never tried the fasting thing +Amit Sinha - would love to hear your thoughts on it.+Chas Melichar : fair enough.A common piece of post-surgery advice is to drink plenty of water; to flush out the bladder, prevent dehydration and a host of other benefits. Does the same sort of thing – increasing fluid intake – apply to the period following a hard training session or race?
+Amit Sinha More power to you for the IF… I’m too weak willed. Nothing against it, though!
Weak willed +Chas Melichar? Hardly.
Speaking of surgery +Chas Melichar, do the general ‘wound healing’ foods also aid muscular recovery? Fish, chicken, eggs and so on?Or do these help in other ways?
+1
+Scott Bird Wow I can’t believe I didn’t mention that first! Nutrition definitely includes water, and in this society we drink way too little water! DEFINITELY post workout water is very, very important… Throughout the day, too. In fact, we have a ritual – 16 swallows of water before bed, and anytime I wake, 4 swallows of water throughout the night, so I don’t wake dehydrated. You can drink too much water, but that’s not too much of a problem in our society it seems.
Cool.Finally +Chas Melichar (just noticed the time), when you started training, what was your recovery like? I suspect it’s a lot better now
+1
+Scott Bird I definitely think the wound healing foods are very helpful with recovery – when you realize that buidling muscle involves tearingfibers, it does make sense to me. Additionally, when I started I drank lots of water, but didn’t think about replacing some of those calories I burnt with healthy calorie intake. Found I lose or maintain weight better by helping replace used nutrients rather than trying to “starve” to lose the weight!
IFing is doable bc there are days when work is so busy so I basically eat my last meal at dinner & break the fast 24 hrs later or 16hrs later, depending on what’s going on that day..works out great bc water still keeps me full.
There’s a lot of interesting research being done on wound healing in general. And I tend to agree – the things that help there often aid muscular recovery.
I guess we should wrap this up. Cheers for that +Chas Melichar, much appreciated. Thanks also to everyone else here – great discussion.
+Chas Melichar, where can we find out more about your own approach to training & nutrition?
+Scott Bird Thanks for hosting, and I look forward to the next #Gymchat!
Thanks once again all, appreciated. btw, for anyone keen to find out about upcoming discussions – details of next week’s conversation will be in the newsletter :
http://straighttothebar.com/subscribe/. Same time each week.
Category: Eating
Tag: gymchat, recovery-foods